plastic under concrete driveway

We really see no downsides to placing the poly below the EPS. Or are these leaks to small to matter? Don't worry if the concrete contractors put a few holes in the poly. And what else do ants love? Put 10 mil poly under your foam, and any moisture in your ground will not get into your foam layer and will thus not attract ants. Context could sway the decision from one place to the next. Response to Alain Hamel I alway wondering why it was so important for architect and engineers to put poly on top and this subject always initiate coarse discussions because it depend on a lot of factors IE: you have to install a radiant floor on one of these preformed insulation panels that hold pipe in, how do you think it have a chance to work. Anything less is a very bad idea. Lastly the insulation is being exposed to the moisture of the concrete when it is wet. If the slab is going to get a finish floor over it then there are no worries, since it won't be seen. This will never achieve the correct top cover. A much better approach is a true vapor barrier, with characteristics that conform to the requirements of ASTM E-1745, "Standard Specification for Water Vapor Retarders Used in Contact with Soil or Granular … The order upwards for the slab is: undisturbed soil, crushed stone, 4-inches of Type I EPS, 6 mil polyethelene sheet, another 4-inches of Type I EPS and then the 4-inch concrete slab for a total insulation value of R30. Sandra, . Get building science and energy efficiency advice, plus special offers, in your inbox. If Joe want to invest some of its time to change the code, he is welcome. Finally, some contractors in cold climates began installing a continuous horizontal layer of rigid foam insulation under their concrete slabs. Gardenised Green Plastic Permeable Grass and Gravel Pavers for Parking Lots, Driveways and RV Pads, Extra Thick Tiles (Set of 4) (1) Model# QI003668GN $ 74 16. i saw this detail in one of Joe L's post on another site. If the plastic is in … Some contractors like to use chairs to raise the mesh; some think chairs are useless and awkward. Anything is possible, as long as your plan meets local code requirements. This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. Malcom Taylor, Tunnel Under Sidewalks and Driveways Remodeling text: Tim Carter ... We drilled a six-inch diameter hole through the concrete foundation of the house so a 4-inch PVC pipe could be inserted and tilted … For me this is a no brainer. Which poly? I do not endorse any of the products. One inch of extruded polystyrene (XPS) has a vapor permeance that ranges from 0.4 perm (that would be a vapor barrier) to 1.6 perm (a vapor retarder, not a vapor barrier), depending on the brand. or at least reduce the amount required? As a long suffering pessimist, I believe that if something can go wrong, eventually it does. Condensed water pools wherever the plastic touches the slab, but the concrete under … Response to Alain Hamel and Karl Overn Just curious. And beyond preventing a moist environment from existing in your foam to attract the insects, 10 mil poly is actually a pretty effective barrier to them itself. There is no reason that the poly cannot be an effective air,vapour and radon barrier if it is well sealed and protected. This sounds like a rare phenomenon -- a code provision that encourages builders to pay attention to airtightness. EcoFoil Under Slab Insulation is superior to traditional, outdated forms of concrete floor insulation such as polystyrene or foam sheets. There are many ways to do this, but here are a few principles to keep in mind: 1. WR MEADOWS white paper on vapor retarders/barriers Any instances where no vapor barrier is applicable? A basic concrete driveway installed over a gravel … Yes, 4 inches of most types of rigid foam would act as a vapor barrier. The plastic panels simply clip together and are laid just under the surface. A forum community dedicated to Do it yourself-ers and home improvement enthusiasts. Buy an auto mechanics scooter to make working in the crawlspace easy. After 10 years, the floor is still perfectly flat, and the joints have NO seasonal swing, stability is maintained. ACI standard 302.1 R-96, Guide for Concrete Floor and Slab Construction, included this recommendation in Section 4.1.5:…. Regarding tubing placement for radiant heating, I have always been concerned about potential problems with the pex tubing being tied to rebar mat: (1) uniformity of placement both horizontally and more importantly, vertically (2) potential known and UNknown damage to pex occurring during concrete pouring, (3) just so many potential what if's with so many laborers trying to maneuver around during the pour. Matthew, It's Now part of the 2010 NBC (and valid in most of the provinces except Quebec) to put a 6mm poly or even thicker under the slab and to seal each penetration correctly and perimeter to the air barrier, the called it radon protection, so nobody have the choice, it's mandatory. Beginning in 1989, the American Concrete Institute (ACI) recommended the installation of a 4-inch layer of granular material between a sub-slab vapor retarder and a concrete slab. I had NO cracking at all. So I specify that top cover must be no less than 3/4" and no more than 1". Put the soil in drywall mud buckets and haul it outdoors. If we have a bunch of EPS sitting on potentially continually damp ground with a poly layer on top, that EPS is going to be a magnet for insects looking for a cozy wet place to hang out. Whenever I have seen holes drilled through concrete slabs, I have never noticed any degradation in the polyethylene layer. Installing a barrier such as polyethylene below the slab retards the transfer of moisture from the ground to the concrete. Where a redundant vapor barrier is placed is of little concern except to those whom making a living splitting the proverbial hairs. Response to James Huang (Comment #11) After reading that list I might be dissuaded from visiting too! You can also cover concrete with sheets of plastic, but beware; this may cause discoloration of the surface if the plastic is not uniformly spread over the concrete. the basement doesn't seem to have active leak problems but is damp due to lack of vapor barrier and exposed walls. These are valid points. I assume that the poly vapor barrier needs to be carefully sealed around each pipe and conduit. In my area if you don't put plastic under the slab, it won't pass code. A classic plastic shrinkage crack . A plastic liner is good because it will stop some moisture from coming up through the slab... as long as it's the right kind of plastic. One contractor says to put plastic under the concrete, it prevents moisture from coming up into the concrete. Thicker samples of EPS would have lower perm ratings. Concrete driveways are permanent, low maintenance additions to your home that can improve its appearance, give kids a safe place to ride scooters, decrease erosion, and make keeping your car clean easier. Many contractor friends said it was a waste of time. Taping the seams in the polyethylene layer, and sealing penetrations, causes no harm, and probably makes air sealing easier once the slab has been placed. I noticed a couple of assemblies noted in Joe Lstiburek's Cold Climate book where he notes slabs with rigid insulation underneath but no vapor barrier that are allowed to dry back to the ground and to the interior. poly placement and radiant heating Response to Robert Hronek, Comment #35. If you installed 3 inches, it wouldn't be the end of the world. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Reason 1: As foam absorbs water it's r-value drops substantially. Since the crushed stone layer provides a fairly uniform substrate, it also may also reduce the chance that a concrete slab will be poorly supported by random pockets of soft, easily compressible soil. Sign up for a free trial and get instant access to this article as well as GBA’s complete library of premium articles and Once this happens the foam becomes buoyant and pokes up thru the concrete like icebergs. Wood Flooring on slabs Response to Alain Hamel (Comment #14) Once this happens the foam becomes buoyant and … hello all, just joined GBA, excited to pick the brains of so many experts. I decided to address your concerns by adding a new section at the end of the article, with the heading "It is important to make sure there are no holes in the polyethylene?". You're right: he is perfectly capable of surviving your virtual threat. Is not the rigid insulation a vapor barrier? The foam layer isolates the room-temperature slab from the cold soil under the slab. In this case, poly goes under,end of the discussion. Poly under a bunch of wet sand, yes. Moisture and wet environments. The ground is always damp. For a 5" thick slab you'll want #3 deformed bars at 6" on center, each way, or #4 at 12". Salt As a side note, we in the mid-west have managed to ignore the former "accepted" science and did not use "blotter sand", though once radiated I defy any slab to go soggy! Placing poly under the rigid foam runs the risk of the concrete while being placed will find its way below the rigid foam thru cracks and joints. Some contractors like to use reinforcement mesh; some contractors like to use rebar. My personal home built in the 50's is a sandy base with a 4" slab cast atop it, and no problems exist. Utilities details Another method to prevent discoloration is to place dry straw directly onto the concrete, then put the plastic on top of it. Or perhaps a less dramatic example; tree roots eventually knotting up and clogging the perimeter drain, an errant excavator shredding the landscape fabric over the drain rock and spilling dirt into the drain, curious kids dumping mud down all the perimeter drain clean outs, etc. I personally think there were four reasons for this easy, non-cracked floor: fibermesh, pouring in shade (SIP walls and roof were up) and most significantly the physical embedded reverse muffin tin shape of the Creatherm product: 4" oc, 2" diameter, 1" tall knurled protrusions into the bottom of the concrete and finally NO uneven water wetting the subbase just prior to pour thereby NO uneven drying or curing. If you want to keep the moisture out of the wood you need to stop it migrating through the slab using a sealer or crystalline coating. For the concrete pouring thing, i use chairs on stairs, balconies or structural slabs never on basement slab, its useless, rebars or reinforcement mesh are only there as an attachment for the pipes, i ask concrete finishing team to slightly shake the pipes support to be sure that they are well coated with concrete.

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